Interview with British Film Director, Mike Leigh (2019)
First of all, may I congratulate you on your new film Peterloo. It is a magnificent achievement.
Thank
you very much.
The film was released on the 200th
anniversary of the horrific events of 1819. What was it that drew you to the
subject, initially?
There
were various reasons, really. Most importantly, I felt that it was a major
event that needed to be told.
One scholar has described the event
as “the most numerous meeting that ever took place in Great Britain”. There are
estimates of 60,000 in the crowd.
Well,
there are some reports that it may have been 100,000 in the crowd.
How did you manage to achieve the
effect of such a colossal crowd? Presumably, you didn’t have 60,000 extras at
your disposal.
No,
indeed we didn’t! We had 200 extras – and the rest was done with crowd
simulation CGI.
Had you used CGI much before?
Yes,
but only subtly. For instance, we used it in Mr. Turner, specifically, in the scene with The Fighting Temeraire.
The CGI operators on Peterloo had
mainly come from the world of commercials, and they were delighted to be able
to actually build a virtual world, and remake a model of the Manchester of the
period.
Dick Pope’s cinematography is
stunning. Certain scenes have stayed with me. For instance, the early scenes of
figures walking across a marsh – and there’s a beautiful, very evocative image
looking into a courtyard through an archway. There was a painterly quality to
the images.
Yes,
as you would know, Dick Pope has been my cinematographer since 1990. He always
brings his wonderful aesthetic to the proceedings.
The period detail in the film is
exquisite – and the costumes appear to be absolutely accurate. Could you speak
a little about this aspect of Peterloo?
Well,
it is a period film at odds with
period film, so to speak. We weren’t going to rely on second-hand accounts. We
knew that the more we go to make it like we think it was it would be a much
greater task. But it was entirely worth it.
One of the great elements of detail
is the scene in a weaving factory with hundreds of looms rattling away.
Yes,
the looms were all real, working looms from the period – not CGI. When I grew
up they were still in existence, I remember seeing them then – all operational.
And we were able to feature them in the film.
There are numerous scenes featuring
candlelight, which must have proved logistically difficult. One thinks of
Kubrick’s Barry Lyndon as an earlier
example in cinema. I suppose there have been advances in cinematography since
then, which may make it easier to shoot such scenes?
Yes,
but they are still candles! I
remember when we were shooting Mr. Turner,
which also had candlelight, and we all went off to see Barry Lyndon as an example. But Peterloo
doesn’t refer to Barry Lyndon.
A number of the actors in Peterloo are from the north of England:
Nico Mirallegro; Neil Bell; Maxine Peake; Pearce Quigley. You yourself were
brought up in Salford. Was it important for you to have this authentic link for
this particular film?
It
had to have authenticity. We didn’t want to cast southern characters who would
have to put on a northern accent. The speech was very important, obviously.
You are renowned for your lengthy
rehearsals, and for getting your cast to develop the dialogue via
improvisation. Did Peterloo demand a
more traditional method, given that it is based upon actual events?
Yes,
in many regards it did. It demanded a great deal of research in order to get an
accurate depiction and portrayal. But, in the end, it was still an organic
process.
Some of the dialogue is the actual
words known to have been spoken by the real historical characters – I’m
thinking, for instance, of the officer who cried: “For shame! For shame! The
people cannot get away!”
That’s
right. Again, it came down to scrupulous research.
There are numerous historical prints
that were made of the massacre. And there is a crisp clarity to the scenes in
St Peter’s Field, which echo some of the lithographs of the period.
Yes,
and of course we looked at everything – all the art, all the history.
It is clear that the Establishment
was intent of crushing any kind of rebellion or disobedience in the most brutal
fashion. This is evident in the early scenes in the courtroom, where the
punishments are outrageously inflated: a hanging for stealing a coat; an old
woman sentenced to penal servitude at Botany Bay, later commuted to a whipping.
And
of course from your perspective in Australia this is very pertinent. I should
mention that those three early courtroom scenes were actual cases which were presented to real magistrates. They were
not exaggerated at all. Each character – the judges and the plaintiffs – were
real.
Astonishing! The Establishment was
obviously keenly aware that the French Revolution had finished only
twenty-years earlier.
The
authorities were terrified of an
English Revolution! And it was a very real possibility. Things were definitely
on a knife’s edge.
The film shows the importance of
women in the events, both behind the scenes and in the front line. They were in
a sense the backbone of the situation.
Women
were very important in the situation. We wanted to tell it like it was. Theirs
was a significant contribution.
The Establishment figures in the film
are rightfully treated with distain. And you seem to have had a special delight
in portraying the grotesque Prince Regent, and his equally grotesque mistress,
Lady Conyngham. This is most apparent in their last scene together, where they
spout empty, jingoistic slogans.
There
was a difficulty dealing with the Prince Regent, because while he was responsible
for building Regency London, he was also an outrageous
person. His final speech in the film is taken from an actual letter that he
wrote.
You have now made a number of
historical films: Topsy-Turvey; Vera Drake; Mr. Turner, and now Peterloo.
Is this an area that you particularly enjoy now?
Well,
it comes and goes. There have been gaps between the historical films. But, yes,
I am interested in continuing with them.
Do you think that People Power today
has the ability to effect change?
I
would like to think so. But these are very volatile times we are living in.
Mike Leigh taught at my old film school - London International Film School back in the mid 70s...
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